View Full Version : Character Revival
E1Alpha
01-10-2013, 03:13 PM
Alright folks.
I am actually considering to enforce permanent deaths, specially since nearly everyone here is mature enough to handle it, should it happen.
BUT
I want your opinions on it.
Just make your choice in the poll and explain your choice if you want.
Cfavano
01-10-2013, 03:16 PM
I still think it should be a choice.
E1Alpha
01-10-2013, 03:17 PM
Cf, way too fast. I was still making the poll, bish.
Cfavano
01-10-2013, 03:54 PM
Okay, my reason. Let's say you really like the character, and spend a long time making them (or, in Anna's case, completely new to RP fighting). This character has existed for the entirety of the game, until a certain point, and was liked by a majority of the players. Then, another player, a new one, in the spirit of dickdom, focuses all their energy on killing off your character. Examples include because they don't like you, or them, etc etc. And then the GM rules that your character is dead, and there is nothing you can do about it. All your hours and hours of work are now gone, and you have nothing to show for it. People generally don't like it when their characters die, which is why most games have a revival system in place (with the exception of Fire Emblem). Usually, you can revive them whenever, or, in the case of final fantasy tactics (and war of the lions) you have until 3 of said character's turns pass, or if the battle ends, whichever is sooner.
What I am saying is, a revival system is in place for most of the best RPGs and video games. So, why could it not be part of RoW?
choice 2 and 3 where fine with me.
but I went ahead with 2.
I think it should be a choice for those who want it. and Cf did make a good point, some people would like more to show for their OC they worked on. But only if they want it. and only with a few added revivals and maybe some added on depending on the OC and what they may or may not have done...
All I know is that my Oc's currently I would like to play out for a while until I feel satisfied they have done their part. and others would to. but it dose not need to be forced upon. if one wants to revive their OC they use up one of their limited points, and mayhaps earn new ones in the future for something or other.
And some beginners may need some time to adjust so having a backup that they can still use the OC they where testing or using first could help with that while they explore new options and so on.
I guess thats all I have to say but Idk If I made any seance right there.
The Imposter
01-10-2013, 04:33 PM
I haven't voted yet but I will. Here is my two cents though:
I think having death as something penalized is a great thing. Knowing that a character could be lost forever actually makes me feel more connected to them. E1 is totally correct in stating that those of us in the rp are able to cope with consequences of perma-death if it is instituted, not to mention revival has hardly been used in the last two chapters anyway.
This all being said I like the idea of having to work for it, if it was to stick around. (because lets face it there are certain characters that are better off dead than alive!). So what could work mean then? I'm far more partial to instituting some quest to get the token/item/magic to revive a character. So lets say Vermy died there is enough characters in Disgeran that could venture out in the quest to get the chance to revive him. So I guess I would like to see it instituted as something other players would want to take part in. (Even further perhaps they could revive certain NPCs too later on.)
Sure this could lead into favoritism of certain player's charas always getting revived but I think that is ok. I mean there is definitely a few amazing characters that have been made.
Cfavano
01-10-2013, 04:34 PM
what about the the characters that have yet to make an impact?
Jacogos
01-10-2013, 05:12 PM
I completely agree with Imposter, because he's awesome and has really nice hair.
I voted for the Token thing, mostly because I think that was something E1 gleaned from me and my current practice with character revival xD Gaining favor from your Meragaia is something I imagine would want to make them revive you, give you another chance. I also imagine that some Meragaia would be harsher on their Soul Orb users than others (Disgeran's, specifically) and that some wouldn't reward characters deeds if they didn't deem them a worthy cause. Hell, if someone from Archeos goes out to kill a general, but doesn't really believe in the power of Alu'terasa, why should he grant them more power? That's just a few of my cents thrown in there for consideration xD
Tolvo
01-10-2013, 07:38 PM
I'm for perma-death entirely, it should be a punishment for making poor choices. Without a fail state there is no true conflict, since no matter the actions of the player they can always just get their character back. It also messed with the importance of NPC's, if an important General dies that was critical to a nation why would some sergeant be revived while one of their most important figures is left dead and rotting? It also brings up the issue of an afterlife, what it is and whether a character will remember if there is or isn't one.
The Imposter
01-10-2013, 08:53 PM
So I voted for the request form....I think ultimately it should be E1's choice to evaluate whether a character is beneficial to the story of realms or not. That isn't just to say if the character can win in battle the most or whatever. Pretty sure E1 is capable of deciding if a character is worth a second chance or not in realms based on how they are played.
DoughGuy
01-10-2013, 10:44 PM
Voted for the tokens. I think it makes sense and brings a nice balance. You can also play it as the blessing of the meragia which means you could explain why the generals dont get it.
Love Amore
01-10-2013, 10:49 PM
I'll go through and real all of y'all's suggestions in a minute, but I like the limiting revival idea as well as the token and the application ideas. AND I think they could all work together, lemme say why.
So everyone works hard on their characters and nobody wants to lose them for a stupid reason, what if every character got one free revival (just one) and then characters AND players could be awarded more for anything. A character might get a revival token for any number of brave acts (this would be character specific) and a player might get a revival token (to be used on any character) for bringing in a new player or being extra helpful or something. And then the last way to bring a character back, if you have no tokens, would be to figure out a way for your character to be revived WITHIN the realms and submit it for approval and then if it's approved the character can come back.
It makes revivals something hard to get, but it doesn't get rid of them. It's a way to reward characters AND players, and it prevents stupid deaths from being permanent. Everybody wins.
I hope that makes sense...
Eddren
01-10-2013, 10:50 PM
I think that you should be able to earn it, however, in most cases it's just Permadeath.
However, I also believe that the things that can be done to 'Earn' it should be expanded from things that are more than just showing signs of being full-on badasses, such as giving sound strategies, doing things that nobody thought of, figuring out ways to defeat previously un-defeatable foes(Or at least foes that were far more difficult to kill,) etc. etc.
I also think there should be ways to UN-Earn your Revivals. Such as cases of extreme incompetence, when you were killed for being a total moron. They should also be decided by the Player if they could be particularly stupid, and voted upon by a judge.
I think anna's idea is awesome :3
Tolvo
01-11-2013, 01:08 AM
I actually don't like Anna's idea of having things that don't happen in character, influencing the character through revivals. If I act as a judge, or writer, or recruiter, I should do it because I want to help/influence the RP, not because I want to get another free man.
Cfavano
01-11-2013, 01:13 AM
But still, even though you didn't do it for that, it still feels good to get stuff for good behavior.
Tolvo
01-11-2013, 01:14 AM
It could also really hurt the quality of work done, people who are doing it out of their want to actually do it rather than get an advantage tend to create much better quality work.
Love Amore
01-11-2013, 01:21 AM
I meant more for it to be a reward AFTER the good stuff, like you do good work to do good work and then it's a reward or a bonus. Not "Do this, get this" but "Oh wow, you did really well, here's something nice for your effort"
Tolvo
01-11-2013, 01:25 AM
I understand the sentiment, and I think there are cases where it can work. But people are people, and often they will do things just for the rewards.
As well this doesn't give an in game/lore explanation either, a normal grunt could be revived a bunch without having done much just because the player controlling them has done a lot of work. It wouldn't explain why they should come back to life above generals, etc.
Love Amore
01-11-2013, 01:34 AM
Everybody does everything for some kind of reward, some people are ok just getting the reward of a job well done and some people aren't. That's just life, everyone is selfish and nothing is free.
Perhaps in order to "activate" a revival token the user should have to figure out a realistic reason for the character to be revived... An idea I came up with in ten minutes is bound to need improving, but I do stand by it being a decent idea.
Tolvo
01-11-2013, 01:37 AM
If there is an in character reason that is...reasonable, for lack of a better word, I can find revival fine. But that is where the real issue comes in for me There are generals, royalty, etc, dead. They aren't coming back, now why would someone not as wanted or useful be brought back from death when other more important figures aren't?
Cfavano
01-11-2013, 01:41 AM
for the same reason that the dovahkiin was to be executed. Some people are just destined. maybe the NPCs AREN'T the chosen ones, and we are.
Jacogos
01-11-2013, 01:55 AM
I'm gonna side with Tolvo on this. Bringing in new people and offering to write, GM, etc. should be initiated because you WANT to help Realms, not done for the sheer possibility that you might get another life for your precious characters.
E1Alpha
01-11-2013, 06:09 PM
Well, it seems obvious to me there are a lot of different opinions, but the most don't want revival out permanently.
Having read through all your suggestions, I would like to put something out for your opinions:
I will be using the revival tokens, but I'd call them more like 'Revival Potentials'.
A new character will start out with one, the others have to be earned through character accomplishments. Like Jacogos said, I have no intention to give extra benefits to those helping with the Realms itself.
But as I said, they won't be real revival tokens. Revival Potentials would be more as to give yourself a chance to give a reasoning why and how your character can be revived. If I approve of it, I will allow your character a revival, with the trading in of 1 Revival Potential, possibly also with other consequences ICly, like for example if you shot in the head by an arrow, you've lost an eye or so. Or maybe you've suffered consequences on your rune tablet, losing one or more runes. It would all depend on your reasoning and my decission.
But, I will indeed also allow OTHER characters to try to persue ways to revive deceased characters or NPCs. Anyone dedicated enough is free to try something like this.
What does you lot think of this plan?
Jacogos
01-11-2013, 06:30 PM
Ace. I bet even Tolvo will approve xD
I do!
wait dose that mean Shani could try and revive her queen?
Jacogos
01-11-2013, 06:43 PM
I do!
wait dose that mean Shani could try and revive her queen?
*stare*
Don't make me kill that bitch again.
di it! If I can revive her XD lets do it!!!
E1Alpha
01-11-2013, 07:01 PM
I never said that would be easy, P.K.
The Imposter
01-11-2013, 07:04 PM
I like it, I like the idea of having the ability to revive some NPC's or characters that never had a chance to progess too much story wise.
well I figured it would not but Shani would totaly do it O-o she's that much of a zelot...
Cfavano
01-11-2013, 09:28 PM
E1 and I have talked at length about that, PK. I'll Pm you about it, in a bit.
Tolvo
01-11-2013, 10:13 PM
Jac, I actually don't like it partially. The ability to revive NPC's is fine, but I still have some qualms about normal units being readily available to revive without much reason. That system Edd and I sort of double worked on would be acceptable to me, but I don't think that is going to be in place.
E1Alpha
01-11-2013, 10:25 PM
I need to make something that can appease as many people as possible, Tolvo. Not as easy task if you look at the voting.
well Like I said awarding points and or limiting the revival is fine with me so If I could have voted twice I would be appeased by either one...
Anna's and your own suggestion where very well as well O-o
Tolvo
01-11-2013, 10:31 PM
Well the idea of our system was based upon whether your body is destroyed or not. Thus, people who are high ranking like generals or players with a past of earning ranks would be a big target for the enemy. Their bodies would be looked for after a battle to be destroyed, preventing them from returning. A normal new player character would be mostly unheard of by the enemy, unless a traitor. Thus the enemy would not find it worth their time to destroy such a body. Making it have a grace period, but as you rank up and show you can handle higher responsibilities you will also be given greater risks should you fail. Something along those lines, so it isn't just easy street for everyone.
Cfavano
01-11-2013, 10:37 PM
but just as the advancing enemy would look for those bodies, the retreating army would look to reclaim them even more as they fall back. Just as why it is likely the body of Nayamee is in Archeosan possession, and not Aeregos.
Tolvo
01-11-2013, 10:41 PM
I don't believe the Queen is important to this conversation, nor do I have even the slightest bit of care about her staying dead or coming back to life due to the little impact she has.
I'm talking generally about players having risks.
Cfavano
01-11-2013, 10:44 PM
I was just using her as an example.
Eddren
01-11-2013, 10:54 PM
Like I've said before, it's great and all to have a revival system in place. I don't mind that; I'm sure a lot of players aren't as willing to have to completely rethink their plans and go about executing them in a new way as I am. However, I also think that if we're placing in some sort of safety net, that we should remove that safety net as we progress in the story, so that we're less of Gods doing whatever in a battlefield, capable of winning battles with no risk simply by slaying every General who gets in our way, and more of soldiers who cannot simply survive making incompetent, stupid decisions.
It allows for the reckless option, but severely nerfs its' usefulness.
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