It's Uh Time for Clyde to Over Analyze a Kids Movie - Live Action Lion King

[Mr.Cynic]

So, from what I hear from the grapevine is that they want to make Simba gay. I am not sure I like this decision. Not because he's gay. But because I think they should have made Scar gay.

Look I was the 5 year old Autistic kid who really really liked animals and knew lions lived in a pride. And that they shared territory with one another and shared females. The story of Hamlet, and I know its suppose to be Hamlet. Just didn't work for me as a kid because it was completely inaccurate and misrepresents lions.

Do you know how many people I have met in real life who actually don't believe that male lions form coalition?

Beyond the fact that it be nice to see a different portrayal of Scar. If we're giving villains more and more depth to them. And also if the nature of villains has been changing just look at the recent Disney villains. Then Scar could do with a modern update.

Also also also, Africa has flooding season and dry season. We only see part of the film where Mufasa was reigning during the flood season. We don't know what the Lion's life was like when Mufasa was head of the pride and had to rule during the dry season.

Back to the main topic about making Scar gay. I mean he was already pretty flamboyant tbh. And so what if in this modern take Scar is gay and Mufasa [all though they can't outright say this] portrays his brother as an evil slimeball. But the reality is that Scar was kicked out because Mufasa didn't want a gay brother.

Dark. But fucking awesome.

Anyhoo. Yeah that's Clyde over analyzing a kids film, since I was a kid, since I turned to an adult. Lion King has never been my favorite.

[Crazywolf]

So, from what I hear from the grapevine is that they want to make Simba gay.

I can't really believe this rumour is actually true. If they made Simba gay it would for one thing take away the relationship with Nala, unless they replace Nala with another male in which case you lose your one and only prominent female character and basically the whole thing would just alienate the existing fanbase who want to see a live-action version of the same story with the same set of characters. Essentially it sounds like fake news to me.

~

Regarding the idea of making Scar gay I think that would be problematic too since Disney has never had an openly gay character in any of it's childrens films until Le Foy in the new Beauty & the Beast who apparently is just a minor part so I think to have their first main gay character and only major gay character in the film be evil would be something of an issue - unless you make it so Scar is nice not evil but then you basically lose most your existing story so again it would defeat the purpose.

[Mr.Cynic]

I can't really believe this rumour is actually true. If they made Simba gay it would for one thing take away the relationship with Nala, unless they replace Nala with another male in which case you lose your one and only prominent female character and basically the whole thing would just alienate the existing fanbase who want to see a live-action version of the same story with the same set of characters. Essentially it sounds like fake news to me.

~

Regarding the idea of making Scar gay I think that would be problematic too since Disney has never had an openly gay character in any of it's childrens films until Le Foy in the new Beauty & the Beast who apparently is just a minor part so I think to have their first main gay character and only major gay character in the film be evil would be something of an issue - unless you make it so Scar is nice not evil but then you basically lose most your existing story so again it would defeat the purpose.

Pfff they did with Maleficient and gave her a sympathetic backstory now.

So they could do it with scar.

Mufasa inability to accept him. Hurt him and turned him to revenge.

[Crazywolf]

Pfff they did with Maleficient and gave her a sympathetic backstory now.

So they could do it with scar.

Mufasa inability to accept him. Hurt him and turned him to revenge.

they made Maleficient gay?

[Mr.Cynic]

they made Maleficient gay?

No they made her a sympathetic villain

[Cfavano]

Disney has never had an openly gay character in any of it's childrens films until Le Foy in the new Beauty & the Beast


https://31.media.tumblr.com/0b6d311550391bbf82e6f5cf3ed5f2bc/tumblr_inline_n03xfpGfM91s4ozbf.jpg

[Crazywolf]

https://31.media.tumblr.com/0b6d311550391bbf82e6f5cf3ed5f2bc/tumblr_inline_n03xfpGfM91s4ozbf.jpg

Ah I didn't know about that one. Nonetheless though I still stand by my main point, I think that if you are making a movie for kids and the only significant gay character in your whole movie is the main villain it could very easily create a negative message.

[Splat]

I'm not too keen on just changing an existing character's sexuality on a whim. This is like Sulu all over again (although Sulu never had a confirmed sexuality on the show). I'd much rather they create an entirely new character that's gay if they really want to be inclusive. I agree with CrazyWolf though, this seems like a very large leap for Disney to go.

On Scar, he definitely wasn't gay in the original. Actually there's a deleted scene where Scar tries to get Nala to be his "queen" and basically almost rapes her. You can see why they took it out xD

As long as Jeremy Irons still voices Scar I'm down. He is just so deliciously diabolical.

[Mr.Cynic]

Come on that fabulous hair flip he does during his song.

Scar was magnificent.

[Holeypaladin]

I can't stand the Maleficent movie. Her very name means "evil" so it just... doesn't make sense to even try to make her sympathetic.

Anyway... I'm against the idea of making Simba gay simply because... there's really no reason for it. Stick to the original story, don't change a dang thing... it's a good story, so don't fix what ain't broke.

I'm not sure it's possible to over-analyze kids movies because well... they're what indoctrinate the youth of today into certain beliefs. Like it or not, Disney princesses are now shining examples of feminism, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. Disney has gotten very political in their movies, in this last decade, and the company is definitely not the Disney of our youth.

Some would say it's a good direction, others would disagree. But that's a different sort of debate entirely. What is evident is that Disney's current direction is incredibly liberal, for certain. So a lot of conservatives I know are refusing to watch anything produced by Disney, while liberals absolutely love it.

[.Karma.]

I don't think Disney has changed much as far as having messages or being political. They always have been for the time they were made in. They cater to what the ideal is for the time period. I think indoctrinate is a big word, especially since children don't really understand political motives. They just understand it's a fairy tale, and it's one of my pet peevs when people make more out of when it comes to children than it actually is.

I guess if putting gay characters in makes them liberal then I suppose they are? But this generation is very open to homosexuality liberals and conservatives alike, and so therefore it would be in the newer movies. So basically, I'm not sure they are becoming more political, they are just keeping up with the generations.

[Cfavano]

yes, but do characters NEED to be gay?

[.Karma.]

Do they NEED to be straight?

[Mr.Cynic]

yes, but do characters NEED to be gay?

Yes and No.

I always think who the character is and who they identify as. Or who they are identified as. Has everything to do with intent, imo.

Imo, when you make the new Iron Man, a black 15 year old girl prodigy, who managed to make herself an Iron Man suit of some sort. I do not see that intent as genuine. I see it as trying to complete an agenda.

But when the story intends for a character to be of a certain minority to serve the purpose of the story in some genuine way that doesn't do it because "we need more diversity." Than it isn't an agenda.

For example Precious, is not an agenda.

[Cfavano]

Do they NEED to be straight?

if that's what the original sexuality was and the story is not objectively improved by changing it, and if no discernable reason is 'the times have changed' they why not make other characters gay?

Like Mickey Mouse, make him gay, and Donald Duck, make him gay too, and make Mickey and Donald a couple. Just, retcon Minnie and Daisy, who cares about canon anymore.

[Mr.Cynic]

Exactly.

When making a story. The intent should never be "we need more diversity" or "what diversity can we add".

The ironic thing is the question could then imply with white people.

We could take a movie like Moana, there were no white people represented in that story. Should we have added a white person on the island to be more diverse?

What about the disabled tribe people, do we need them to be more diverse?

Should we also add a gay couple because there were none?

[Cfavano]

To use a personal example.

I have played Gay Characters, Straight Characters, Bi, Pan, Cis and trans.

but not because 'they need to be so, because the times.'

I did so as just part of them. I would not make one of my straight charcters gay because 'diversity' because then that's just pandering and that is offensive.

And, s an even MORE personal note, I have Autism, Asperger's Syndrome. I struggle with it every day.

But should a character have it as well? No, I do not wish it on anyone. If a characters has it, it shouldn't be given to them 'just 'cause'' It should just be part of their character, it should not be given focus. and shouldn't just be tossed in.

[.Karma.]

If the sexuality is never mentioned. I don't think it matters. If they want to have Minnie and Daisy be togethr then that's cool with me :)

The sexuality isn't mentioned much in kids movies because it doesnt matter. Kids don't care unless someone wants them to. So really if they had Minnie and Daisy decide they want to be together it wouldn't matter to me at all, personally.

Either way. That's just my take on it. I'll let you guys discuss more.

[Cfavano]

I think the problem is why was it being mentioned. Scar is not sexualized character, he's just a villain, he shouldn't HAVE a sexuality. We should see him only as he is, a bad guy.

[Evening Rain]

Scar could be made so much deeper than that tho. He doesn't always have to be defined as an archetypal bad guy.

I agree, making Simba gay is kind of unfair because he has a romance with Nala and everything, and there's even a rather nice song about it.

Scar is totally fair game though, I think that would be a fun and interesting idea to explore.

[Cfavano]

why tho? The story was good as it is, leave it as it is, it doesn't need to be remade, period.

Make something new.

[Evening Rain]

Well that's a completely different discussion, whether the movie should be remade at all. I probably don't think it should - but assuming that it is,

why not at least add something original to it?

In that case, Scar can be further fleshed out as more than just an archetypal Machiavellian villain. Honestly, I love Scar a whole lot - he's awesome - but I don't think that means adding some depth to his character would hurt. He already acts in a fairly elegant, sleek and arguably camp way. You don't need to add much, just be subtle about it.

[Mr.Cynic]

Well that's a completely different discussion, whether the movie should be remade at all. I probably don't think it should - but assuming that it is,

why not at least add something original to it?

In that case, Scar can be further fleshed out as more than just an archetypal Machiavellian villain. Honestly, I love Scar a whole lot - he's awesome - but I don't think that means adding some depth to his character would hurt. He already acts in a fairly elegant, sleek and arguably camp way. You don't need to add much, just be subtle about it.

When he fixes and sleeks back his mane in the song Be Prepared.

Fabulous lion

[Crazywolf]

Well that's a completely different discussion, whether the movie should be remade at all. I probably don't think it should - but assuming that it is,

why not at least add something original to it?

In that case, Scar can be further fleshed out as more than just an archetypal Machiavellian villain. Honestly, I love Scar a whole lot - he's awesome - but I don't think that means adding some depth to his character would hurt. He already acts in a fairly elegant, sleek and arguably camp way. You don't need to add much, just be subtle about it.

I go back to my original point, making the main villain gay while all the heroes Simba, Mustafa, Nala are straight could easily give out a negative message.

[Mr.Cynic]

I go back to my original point, making the main villain gay while all the heroes Simba, Mustafa, Nala are straight could easily give out a negative message.

Not it wouldn't. I keep telling people this. But people need to recognize;

The villain isn't evil because he's gay

The Villain is evil and is also gay

They are two separate things. And people need to recognize heroes and villains all can be gay, straight, black, white, Mexican, and so and so forth.

Being a Villain has nothing to do with your sticker.

I always tell people this. Wear your ideas and beliefs as accessories. Just as someone can criticize that watch or that necklace. That watch or necklace doesn't necessarily define you. It merely expresses a key piece of who you are.

You can take a necklace and a watch off. So when someone criticizes a belief, an idea, or an opinion. They aren't criticizing You. They are criticizing that watch or that necklace.

People need to learn separate themselves from defining themselves by merely definitions.

edit-

You can't have it both ways. You can't ask for diversity and then exclude all villains from that diversity. Then that's not diversity.

[Crazywolf]

The villain isn't evil because he's gay

Unfortunately though that's the way some people would view it. And when I say some people I include adults as well as children.


You can't have it both ways. You can't ask for diversity and then exclude all villains from that diversity. Then that's not diversity.

I wasn't suggesting to exclude all villains. I was just saying it could be an issue in a situation where the only main character who is gay is the main villain.