Modern Educayshun

[Cfavano]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWu0tsiZM

Jesus Christ

[Crazywolf]

I've actually seen this before when it was shared by another member. My first point would be that I highly doubt it's an accurate reflection of the current australian education system which if so would make the title something of a misnomer (if it were I certainly think this would have been reflected and commented on in other media and people would know about it). My second point would be that even if it's simply meant to depict a hyperthetical dystopia that could happen I don't think that in practice this scenario they are depicting is actually likely to actually come about.

[Griff]

Yeah...I shared this during what I'd like to call my "edgy" phase (lol not really, but I used to like posts like this, now, not so much) Cause like...if you don't agree with the video there's like no redeeming qualities in it for other people, yknow? No one wants to be that person, the one who shares political things that make other people uncomfortable. It's just...awkward I guess

[NightlightNinja]

I've seen this before too, and a couple of Neel Kolhatkar's other videos on this subject as well. 'Penelope' is a fantastic actress.

[Dnafein]

The one thing I feel I have to comment on is when someone made the statement that they "had the right to not be offended."

My desire here is to point out that (to my knowledge) there has yet to be a law that makes offending someone illegal. Additionally any society that has established a basic freedom of expression law, or reaches for true enough can not make such a law. They would quickly find themselves as a society with zero expression or a police state; As the majority of humanity generally find something to be offended by.

Personally I feel being offended is good for a person. It challenges them to broaden their views. Unfortunately because we put so much effort into protecting people from offense more often then not it turns out poorly for the "offender." Whether they simply sated a fact ( like when he pointed out the class seemed to have nothing to do with math) or if they tried to force their viewpoints on others. The latter of which happened to the protagonist/victim(?) in the video.

[Cfavano]

actually, apparently from what I hve heard (have not bothered to look it up because it does not affect me) You cn get arrested for posting islamophobic stuff on social media if you live in england

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yup, maybe https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9525/europe-illegal-criticize-islam

[Tolvo]

Yes I remember when this political vid made the rounds before. It is a bit unclear whether the creators simply have a very warped view of reality or were merely going so hyperbolic they hit the stratosphere. It's pretty clearly anti-progressive and very conservative propaganda born of the incorrect fear of progressive ideas and concepts.

[Crazywolf]

actually, apparently from what I hve heard (have not bothered to look it up because it does not affect me) You cn get arrested for posting islamophobic stuff on social media if you live in england

It depends on the context. We have laws against inciting hatred against people based on their race, religion or sexuality so if it falls into that category then yes you could.


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yup, maybe https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9525/europe-illegal-criticize-islam

I'm afraid this story is simply false.

[Tolvo]

Now it probably would be helpful to track hate speech since that can often be a precursor for more(harassment, assault, murder, terrorism, etc). Like often people don't just out of the blue do something horrible there are usually patterns leading up to it. But that's still a different level from making offensive speech illegal.

Regarding people being offended, it depends on what they're offended by. In my book hate speech is offensive. But someone being born different is not. If someone was offended for being called a slur I'd say they have reason to be. If someone is offended because I'm trans and queer I'd tell them to go fuck off and die.

[Dnafein]

Not raising to your bait Tolvo, just pointing out that your last statement matches the behavior of the people in the video. Offense is offense, whether logical or not. Allowing one group to be offended because of they share your beliefs and not allowing another go is just a different kind of elitism/fanaticism. Can't expect to be treated equally when your attempting to dictate another's behavior.

Know what I mean?

[Tolvo]

It's not elitism or fanaticism I'd say it's being mature and critical. Being upset someone is gay is not equal to being upset someone said harry potter sucks. Forms of hatred, dislike, etc, are not even remotely equal.

[Dnafein]

To one person their sexual identity is everything to another it is simply something they live with while trying to cope with living in a world of only muggles.

Who are YOU to say what is equal to what while trying to defend a viewpoint all about what matters to YOU. No two people are the same, no two people have the exact same values. What seems trivial in one country could be important in another. What seems normal in one state could be bizarre in another. What seems mundane on the street you live on could be of vital importance three streets over.

Your trivialization of what could be important to someone else in favor of what you think matters is the very definition of elitism. The ideals that someone else should either share your views or die is the very definition of fanaticism. The stance that your committing neither while displaying the. Behavior is either arrogance or ignorance. None of these traits However are useful for seeing, and treating every one as equals.

Hell, you can think someone is a complete fruitcake and still treat them as a human being. That would actually be mature and critical.

[Tolvo]

Uh I'm me, stating my opinion. I don't see it as elite to value people's rights and identities over hatred of them. If someone comes from a country where free speech is frowned upon would you then say their opinion is just as valid that you should be censored by the state for expressing yourself?

I trivialize things that I consider worthless, hatred of others I find worthless and hurtful to society so I consider hateful ideologies negative.

[Dnafein]

. Being upset someone is gay is not equal to being upset someone said harry potter sucks. Forms of hatred, dislike, etc, are not even remotely equal.

Trivialization of what is not important to you.


Uh I'm me, stating my opinion. I don't see it as elite to value people's rights and identities over hatred of them. If someone comes from a country where free speech is frowned upon would you then say their opinion is just as valid that you should be censored by the state for expressing yourself?

I trivialize things that I consider worthless, hatred of others I find worthless and hurtful to society so I consider hateful ideologies negative.

Your opinion has worth to YOU. It may have zero worth to your neighbor. Should your neighbor desire you to "Shut up and die?" After all your opinion is something that makes up your identity no? So if your neighbor didn't care about your opinion or agree with it that would make up his identity correct?

You trivialize things YOU consider worthless. What if someone finds something you care about worthless, would that bother you? Does their opinion matter as much as yours does? Because their opinion is part of their identity what does that mean for your opinions of their opinions?

Are you starting onto understand yet? Everyone, EVERY single poor sumbitch on this planet, has a right to their opinion and belief. No matter how dumb, selfish, hateful or cruel; As human beings they have the right to it. Just as you have a right to disagree with it. That is what the basic human rights clearly state when mentioning freedom of expression.

That leaves 2 options.


You can trivialize their beliefs and opinions. You can meet their stupidity/hate/ignorance in kind; And you can wish they shut up and go die; Thus perpetuating the system by fighting hate with hate ensuring that whichever side wins will be kept warm by their sweet sweet hate.


Or....


You can grow the fuck up. Realize they have the same rights to their opinions/beliefs/views as you and find a way to live with it and them. Treating them as human beings and hoping your example of maturity and thought will one day rub off on them. Or that those particular thoughts follow the dinosaur.


Again not raising to your bait. Simply pointing out a few simple truths.



If I met someone from a country in which they are inexperienced with freedom of speech I would offer to buy them a drink and then welcome them to awesomest mother fucking experience of their life.

[Tolvo]

I'm sorry where did I state that others didn't have the rights to their opinions? I can just think their opinions are shit. Yes I trivialize people who hate others because they deserve to be trivialized. Big surprise I don't like hateful people. If they grow up and stop hating others then cool. If they don't then as far as I'm concerned they can fuck off. It's pretty simple. I've understood where you're coming from the whole time I just consider you to be incredibly wrong.

[Cfavano]

But say you have this guy who emigrated ftom that one african country where being gay is a capital offense. He has lived there for 40 years and from childhood he has had that haye speech rammed into him to the point that he hates as well.

He is not going to chanhe his beliefs, he cant it is too deep in him.

Does that make him a bad person, when he knows nothing else?

[Tolvo]

Yes I would consider that person a bad person if they hate and want gay people to die.

Although i would like to clarify I was very tired last night so I was a bit unfiltered, if I came off a bit aggressive.

[Cfavano]

Oh qt3.14 you can be aggressive all you want, you bad girl ;)

[Griff]

wtf Cf

did that really need to be said

[Cfavano]

I think the thread was getting too deep and wanted to lighten it so it doesnt ger locked

[Dnafein]

I'm sorry where did I state that others didn't have the rights to their opinions? I can just think their opinions are shit. Yes I trivialize people who hate others because they deserve to be trivialized. Big surprise I don't like hateful people. If they grow up and stop hating others then cool. If they don't then as far as I'm concerned they can fuck off. It's pretty simple. I've understood where you're coming from the whole time I just consider you to be incredibly wrong.

So you trivialize people who don't agree with you. That would be elitism.

Your statements make it obvious that equal treatment for all doesn't matter to you. And thus you prove that the people in the video exist, as you are on.

I mean you consider me wrong because I say everyone should be treated as a human being, but you have people who you choose to trivialize simply because their views and opinions are different. They have a different personal identity then you, and rather then "value their rights and identity" you trivialize it.

Your own words reveal the truth you can not admit to yourself. A shame really. Well I'm done here.

[Tolvo]

And yet keep in mind to me you are the person who does not care for the rights of others. I consider you wrong because I find your philosophy very ignorant of context and the reality that is discrimination against others.

[ｒａｂｂｉｔ]

Ok guys this has turned really personal and attacking, let's take a step away and calm down!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you can be the sweetest peach in the harvest but there will still be someone who doesn't like peaches!

Make some apple pie!

Or carrot cake...

[Dnafein]

I never said I don't care for the rights of others. In fact I simply pointed that out about you. Everyone has the right to their opinions whether you agree with it or not. Never have I said otherwise. In fact my suggestion has repeatedly been to accept that right rather then to trivialize what opinions match your own. Which would be defending the rights of everyone and not just the rights of those I agree with. You have the right to dislike someone else's opinion. However that does not give you the right to claim it has no value to them, nor does it give you the right to wish them harm or demand that they not have that opinion.

Again I simply say, treat people as people whether you like them or their opinions and everyone will be better for it. If everyone continues to be elitism fanatics and refuse to grant everyone ho doesn't agree with them the same rights they demand for themselves the world goes no where.

[SikstaSlathalin]

Ah Orwell.

[Crazywolf]

It obviously parallels Orwell in certain aspects however Orwell's vision was more about the hazard of a single party overweeningly motivated by self-interest gaining exclusive control of the state where as so far as I can understand it this video is more the idea of australian society inflicting misguided ideas onto itself.

[Cfavano]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMpxsiUg2Q

[Griff]

Cfav I'm pretty sure the mods don't want this convo to escalate any further, so is it really the best idea to post more?

[Tolvo]

I just wanted to say in here I'm sorry for joining in on personal attacks. And I agree with Griff above.

[Cfavano]

well, the guy does more work, I just wanted to share. all tings aside...they are good movies

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certainly better than the emoji movie coming out

[.Karma.]

Alright guys, I'm locking this thread. I don't really see any healthy discussion coming of it.