Let's Discuss! (Ke$ha)

[Kris]

I dunno, you guys pointing fingers and I really don't know what's it like to be in her shoes.

If it did happen, she must feel horrible. Both guilty and ashamed or more. But as a woman, and a judge I would have probably considered it some more.

They could just easily give her sum to pay and sent her free, that's just being stubborn for nothing.

Whatever her reasons I think it is right to allow her off under certain condition, I feel like being too pressing on this is just wrong.

Other stars were off contracts much more easily, being stubbron about this is just plain stupid.

[~N~]

My impression is that there's nothing substantiated yet (as Griffin pointed out), and while I certainly recognize the challenges that a woman faces coming out about sexual abuse and the other charges Ke$ha is bringing against Dr. Luke, so far, it's all hearsay on Twitter.

As I understand it, she's under contract with Sony and Dr. Luke. It *appears* that she's attempting to break her contractual agreement with him and Sony. And it *seems* that Sony wouldn't mind letting her work with someone else, but it *appears* she wants to split from anything related to Dr. Luke, connected to him, or anything.

Which -- if what she's saying is true -- is understandable. But contracts are... a bitch to get out of, legally and otherwise. And the fact that she has yet to present any substantial, tangible evidence of abuse against Dr. Luke is also (I suspect) the reason the judge dismissed/denied her motion to "decimate" her contract.

It's clear she no longer wants to work with him. Unfortunately, she's facing an uphill battle untangling herself from contractual obligations that could substantially affect and harm her future prospects, not just financially, but professionally. Not to mention his defamation lawsuit against her that has already been filed.

Whatever the truth is, Ke$ha has definitely got herself in a bind right now, and it doesn't look good for her or her career in the industry for the near future.

[Griff]

Kris, I don't know but I can't really call that guy a "creep" or something like that. Maybe it's because I don't really trust the claims, especially without evidence backing them up.

[Kris]

Check his twitter replies, they are more than enough to tell me of his way of dealing with things.

He could have just settled it with her in another way. It would have hurt less his images.

[Griff]

But what is he settling? There are claims of bad things he may have done, I don't think there really is a good way to "settle things", other than of course admitting to the claimed actions and getting thrown in jail/having his career ruined, regardless of whether or not her did it.

[Megilwen]

Seeing that she's 28 now. It's a little too late to have any substantial evidence into the rape charges, unless it is witness claims like with Billy Cosby where lots of women are coming forward pressing charges.

Like Griffin has said. Without evidence there is nothing that can be done to substantiate the claims of abuse and it is innocent until proven guilty.

Now as to her contract, the fact that she was offered another producer but fears to work with someone else because it'll affect her music seems a bit of a stretch? At this point Kesha is such a big name on her own I don't feel that working with Dr. Luke would be necessary anymore and that she'd do equally as well under someone else.

And while Sony could offer her a deal to break her contract, why would they allow a star artist to go somewhere else? Speaking strictly from a business perspective, it would be a poor business move on their part.

[Miss Devil]

The point of why she is worried about getting another producer is that she might not be given the same music as she would; there is also the point that they might not give her the same publicity as she got before. And before I see another comment: Dr. Luke was a producer for Kelly Clarkson, Brittney Spear, and work on both "Wrecking Ball" and "Party in the USA" by Miley Cyrus.

[Mariel]

Short opinion: It's Kesha's own fault for waiting so long to try and get out of the contract based on sexual assault, and now she is suffering consequences for it.

This isn't just an issue with Kesha - it's a massive issue in society right now when it comes to women and sexual assault period. One example is is this young woman from Baylor Uni who waited too long to bring to light rape charges against another student. Because she waited so long, there was no evidence left to convict him - just like the case with Kesha.

Are they at fault for being raped/abused/assaulted? Of course not. But that is the only mindset over half the people get set on when it comes to someone who speaks up for the accused. Not because we don't think they did it, but because the victim waited too long to do anything about it. They let any and all evidence disappear, and there is a perfectly good reason why that evidence is needed. There is always the case of consensual sex, but for whatever reason either party wants to claim rape. How is anyone to tell if it was actually rape, or a friendship gone awry? Especially when there is no evidence at that point?

So what, we are just supposed to automatically believe allegations of rape because it's such a sensitive issue? Let's just go see how many lives we can ruin, careers we can ruin, by doing this.

It's not right. Rape isn't right, sexual assault isn't right - but you know what also isn't right? Waiting months, even years after an incident happens (or maybe didn't happen), and trying to have something done about it. It's not going to happen, and it damn well should not happen.

Instead of trying to argue that Kesha should be allowed out of the contract - which she shouldn't, because there is no longer any evidence of her claims - we should be focusing on the fucking gigantic issue everyone is glossing over.

And that issue is pushing and pushing even harder to have women who unfortunately have gone through abuse like this to not wait, to stop putting sex in such a negative light, stop making it into a sensitive thing that is shameful to talk about - that way it won't be so goddamned difficult to stand up and say "I was raped/abused/whatever" and do something about it.

Because hiding it for how long after the fact is doing no one justice. Women have a responsibility to step up for themselves and speak up, instead of hiding behind the soft/dainty shield society's stereotype on the female gender has created.

Spoiler: So yeah, my opinion.  

[Kris]

I think we are slowly getting aware to the idea that people start to speak on it only later.

Even on how to deal the whole issue - aka not pointing fingers at the party which was hurt, and start to see there is something going on there which may effect how we handle things.

I would have encouraged a good system to review such cases and be open to change.

Maybe I'm too hopeful, or maybe I'm coming from another point of view as I expect such system to have a way to self learn and improve.

Good system would have tried to be more supportive, help her case, maybe evne direct her to god damn help section.

I don't know... just this whole thing it's so cold and undetailed I can't even place my fingers on all the wrong things with it.

Business aside, there is a serious moral issue here.

[~N~]

Culturally, it's a catch-22 with pervasive stereotypes and labels applied by people from all over the gender spectrum, when it comes to sexual abuse and rape. Take your average woman, say she is abused/raped. Now she faces the following (probable) trajectory:

1) Consequences, physical, emotional, psychological, cultural. Damage of various kinds in all of those areas. She may need to consider getting an abortion, medical examination, counseling, therapy, etc, etc.

2) She must consider whether she wants to say something or not. Many women choose to preserve their cultural/social dignity in silence, rather than admit to being a sexual abuse victim. In that case, nobody knows, and she gets to pretend it didn't happen (and live with the consequences above)

3) If she chooses to say something, she faces the problem of evidence, along with time and humiliation. Our criminal justice system can prosecute cases of rape and non-consensual sex, but it's never a sure thing, and if you've ever actually done anything legal, you know it takes them potentially years to prosecute a case through court. That's at least months, and possibly years of potential embarrassment, humiliation, retaliation and further incidents of intimidation and abuse while the case is put through the system. College campuses are scrambling to put in place a response system with their own police and security departments to handle cases like these on the spot but even they have to follow a sometimes lengthy, drawn out process. Laya's right. The best opportunity a woman has is to report immediately, and hope she has enough evidence to substantiate her case.

3a) But if she doesn't win? Now she's a liar (on top of the consequences she already faces) and is hit with backlash for trying to badmouth a respected male member of the community, and he is free to treat her (within reason) with very little sympathy and a whole heaping pile of self-indulgent righteousness. This is insult on top of injury for her.

3b) If she does achieve a prosecutorial victory against her offender, she still faces the backlash of at least part of the community (believe it or not), and still wears the label of "damaged goods" and other cultural appropriations regardless. She's now a poster girl for rape cases in her community.

It's an ugly thing, all the way around. *frowns and shakes his head* And it's not going away anytime soon. But the best chance at any type of personal/legal reparations comes (a significant majority of the time) from immediate reporting, quick response, and evidence of assault and rape, which the police and lawyers can attempt to mount and win a case with. If you wait? The chances of ever putting things right diminishes dramatically.